The Helicopter was at the wrong altitude which the tower may have assumed they were at 200 feet thus the directions they gave would probably worked.
Plane crash: NTSB says Army helicopter flying at 300 feet at time of collision
LINK
In this case, as most cases, the safety of a flight primarily depends on the pilots.
I was released from a small airport by the ATC when I should not have been released.
He read my instructions I was supposed to write down and read back and I forgot pencil
and paper. I couldn't read back. He repeated as fog continued to roll in and I got more and more
apprehensive - very bad for mental abilities on top of being tired.
Finally he released me - erroneously - and I started takeoff, lost horizon in the fog and was in
dire straits, just about to die. I pulled back hard on the yoke, broke out of the ground layer, and
just before stalling, pushed forward hard and flew home, beating 96% odds against crashing.
Doing one thing right saves you. The pilots failed to look left. Fatal error for many people.
Inexcusable, in my opinion, particularly when they know this is a final approach corridor.
Does the government preserve all tower transmissions? They preserve everything else.
(02-04-25, 09:20 PM)old dog Wrote: [ -> ]Does the government preserve all tower transmissions? They preserve everything else.
There are tapes of all frequencies. That said, this thing is going to land squarely on pilot error by the military. The fact they were at 325 feet exceeds the flight restrictions on the helicopter. The improper directions by the tower create a secondary item in the cause of the crash. The pilots should have made a sweep looking for incoming aircraft even after the tower instructions. It's like crossing a road, look both ways.
The NTSB has released a preliminary finding:
NTSB Confirms Black Hawk Pilot Made a Fatal Error That Caused the Crash - TFPP Wire
It seems to me that what they were doing was failure waiting to happen. I didn't realize this, but it is reported that the altimeter needs set by the flight crews. It is also reported that it isn't easy to do. It is also reported that the passenger jet was making a turn into the runway, which at 300 feet is normally not allowed but Reagan airport is different. Turning to the left caused the jet to not see the helicopter. With the helicopter supposedly at 200 feet and the plane at 300 feet that is obviously only 100 feet of clearance, not much of an error for the altimeter.
I would have thought that with today's electronics there would be a collision alarm but I never heard of one going off, maybe because the plane was banking away from the helicopter.
My WAG is that this will end up being ruled a cluster of mistakes.
(02-04-25, 06:31 PM)Billy_Bob Wrote: [ -> ]Its currently being reported by many sites that the tower instructions given to the helicopter pilots was wrong. The Tower directed them to look at the two o'clock position and plane taking off not to the 10 o'clock position where the incoming flight was. If this turns out to be true, the Tower owns the deaths of all of these people. I have seen conflicting reports from different sources..
Looking for any confirmation that anyone has to the conflicting reports.
Air traffic controller reported seeing a 'fireball' when American Airlines jet collided with helicopter near Reagan Airport:
The pilot of the helicopter also turned off a safety system. It's not uncommon, but may have has something to do with it.
(02-06-25, 07:58 AM)Freewill Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't realize this, but it is reported that the altimeter needs set by the flight crews. It is also reported that it isn't easy to do.
That's false the altimeter is set every time before take off using the local barometric pressure to ensure it properly reads ASL in flight.
(02-05-25, 11:03 AM)...The NTSB has released a preliminary finding: Wrote: [ -> ]NTSB Confirms Black Hawk Pilot Made a Fatal Error That Caused the Crash - TFPP Wire
The legalese would be that the proximate cause of the crash was the helicopter being at the wrong altitude. If it had been at the 200 feet ceiling it would have been a scary near miss, unexpected, since the helicopter pilot was directed to look for the plane in the wrong direction, but a miss.
That said, the ATC misdirection is a problem. That (s)he was covering two stations at a busy time is concerning. WRT the helicopter pilot, apparently she had something like 500 flight hours, but her most recent posting had been to host VIP visitors at the White House. Having her do less technically challenging training flights after returning to flight duty and then increasing the technical challenges might have been more prudent.
(02-06-25, 04:59 PM)PeteS in CA Wrote: [ -> ]That said, the ATC misdirection is a problem.
Minor correction, ATC was not involved both aircraft where under guidance from Tower, or should have been.
Final approaches are handed off from ATC to Tower.
(02-06-25, 04:02 PM)WellBonded Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-25, 07:58 AM)Freewill Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't realize this, but it is reported that the altimeter needs set by the flight crews. It is also reported that it isn't easy to do.
That's false the altimeter is set every time before take off using the local barometric pressure to ensure it properly reads ASL in flight.
Barometric pressure varies with time and location ... who knows?
I haven't seen/ heard details about the helicopter black box yet. But IF the tower directed them to the 2 o'clock position.........then it seems the tower may be at fault.
Wouldn't you think though that eyes on the plane might have told them to go 10 o'clock?
(02-06-25, 06:08 PM)old dog Wrote: [ -> ]Barometric pressure varies with time and location ... who knows?
That is why it is updated hourly.
(02-06-25, 10:23 PM)Jen Wrote: [ -> ]I haven't seen/ heard details about the helicopter black box yet. But IF the tower directed them to the 2 o'clock position.........then it seems the tower may be at fault.
Wouldn't you think though that eyes on the plane might have told them to go 10 o'clock?
THats a question for the pilots. I was taught, as a child, to look both ways before crossing the road. It should be a natural response. A lot of things went bad in this. Tower personnel was short, and one person was doing the job of two. The pilot was above maximum allowed altitude, and the anti-collision system was off.
So many things were wrong...